IITs, NITs, BITS, IIIT – Where do we stand ?
Rohith broke the news of NITs lifting off the “state based” reservations. Now each NIT shall reserve only 50% of the seats for the local candidates and the rest of the seats would be free for all. This was reported in the Hindu and the circular from the HRD ministry can also be found here. I still remember as a bright Engineering aspirant going through the prospectus and getting disheartened on seeing that there would only be one seat in NIT trichy for CSE or NIT Surathkal for Electronics [Not that i would get it with my rank] and that it was reserved. I always felt that it was gross injustice to candidates with good ranks not being able to join “better” colleges. The previous system was flawed because it gave preference to state ranks rather than national ranks due to the geographical reservation. So there were cases in which a guy from AP with a better rank couldnt get in to NIT trichy but a guy from Assam with a lower national rank than the former could easily get in. [The reference to both the states is not intentional.]
But on the other hand it surely does affect the propects of students from not so well performing states. Students in states which have “corporatized” education like Andhra Pradesh [This is intentional] and Rajasthan [Kota] would be surely jumping with joy. Compare this scenario , A student from Kerala with a national rank of 99000 has a state rank of 6000 while a student from AP with a national rank of 48800 has a state rank of 7700. The very intention of this ruling was to put all the students on the same ground as AIEEE was technically a purely merit examination but practically the geographical reservations foresaked the merit for their nativity.
Secondly this ruling will also have implications on the institutes both academically and socially. The top tier NITs – Trichy, Surathkal, Warangal to name a few, would definitely have a better talent pool than the lower tier NITs. I aint saying that their standard would increase or their standard would decrease – as I think that marginalizing “standards” on students ranks or their castes is pure bullshit. A lot of other factors come into play. But another grave consequence of this would be losing the diversity in the composition of a batch. With 50% locals and 50% others deemed to be from all the other states, the batch would definitely be more vibrant. But under the new law, there can be case that 80% of the non local seats can be filled by candidates from a single state.
A point in the case here is NIT Warangal. Before coming under the AIEEE scanner, the admission were sought under the “prestigious” EAMCET and only a few seats were offered under non local category. But now 50% of the seats would be filled by Andhra-ites. There is a possibility that the most of the other non local seats will be filled by Andhra-ites too [The circular clearly says that the 50% seats would be filled on All India Merit Basis]- Thus reverting it back to the old days.
So the ruling would surely help meritorious students but is it justified with merit being so unevenly distributed across the country – Its debatable and I prefer leaving it to the honchos of bureaucracy and academicians to fight it out.
Finally coming to the title of blog – Where do we stand ?.
IITs have increases in number, BITs Hyderabad is coming up, NITs have done off with reservations – What is gonna happen to IIIT ? The opening rank last year was 256 and the closing rank was 2636. You can find the information here. During our year the opening rank was around 120 [Kirthi Krishna] and the closing rank was around 2300. Opening ranks dont carry much significance since it opinions of students vary – I still remember kirthi joined IIIT because he wanted to do ECE and his rank in IIT wouldnt fetch him that. However the closing ranks do indicate the trend. With more seats in offering from IITs, BITS and NITs will students still flock to IIIT ? Surely people who dont find the course of their choice will but a majority of them would definitely go there. You might argue that our CSE is on par with IIT, NITs are no competition etc but try arguing with a parent and an aspirant who has for the first time heard about IIIT. What comes in to play here is the brand image. Does IIIT have that brand image that it can beat the others and still maintain its position. I still expect the closing rank to go beyond 3000.
I fondly remember going through the brochure of IIIT and joining it solely on the basis of the last 3 pages – Which read “Placements”. There were many others in our batch and there are several in IIIT who have done the same thing. The institute prides itself in saying that its one-of-a-kind reseach institute. Whats debatable is the stark difference between the view of the management and the view of the candidates joining the institute who still see it as an 6lpa-awarding-degree machine. Now what lays in front of Dr. Sangal is a humongous task of building a brand as unique as IITs and BITS. Yeah surely they have been around for 40 years how can you compare us with them. I aint. When they were budding there were the only ones and there was far too little competition but now its a battleground out there. Anothe issue is the exorbitant fees. IITs, NITs and BITS charge exactly half – The argument – Hey they are funded – A parent doesnt give a damn about it. He isnt doing any charity paying the fees. We are not competing against IIT, but the candidates and parents do pit us one against another.
What I intend to say is that we might be at a loss of talent pool – A thing that we cant afford to lose at this junction.
But one has to see it, to believe it. After being to 5 IITs, 2 BITS and a NIT – What I have noticed is that we are different. And mind you they too are different in their own ways. Each institute has its own identity – we are trying carve one for ourselves.
On another note you must be knowing about the AP IIIT thing running in our college. They recruit students from rural areas and provide them IT education. Though they bear the IIIT tag they dont have any relationship with us whatsoever. But lately reports have been surfacing in local papers and news channels that meritorious students have been refused admission in to IIIT. The heading read “IIIT refuses entry to a meritorious student” [Translated from telugu though]. People say that kamal reads this blog – If this is true just take care of it.





> What I intend to say is that we might be at a loss of talent pool – A thing that we cant afford to lose at this junction.
If you meant that the closing rank would be in 3000s and hence we are missing out, i disagree. Check any batch, the opening and closing rank may have a gap of 2000 but the quality is not much different. What you do in 4 years here matter far more than what rank you joined at.
the HRD ministry circular is a very, VERY bad idea. this idea is going to ruin the entire educational scenario in the country. as a warning – people from andhra and kota-like places wont like what i’m going to write below.
i hate this corporate school culture in andhra and places like kota. absolute, bottom of the heart hate. they are little more than educational concentration camps, and quite honestly, i dont know how parents can send their children to places like this. people from these educational concentration camps score better in AIEEE. obviously. they’d have to be quite incompetent (or insanely unlucky) to NOT score that well given they spend atleast 8 hours a day slogging.
me and people from most other states must have spent less than one tenth of the time people in andra/kota have on aieee/jee preparation. despite that, we seem to do quite all right in college, and quite well, well beyond that.
“talent” is what we want to fill our best (or second best) institutes with. the previous state-quote system assumed that talent was distributed pretty evenly throughout the country. this new system assumes that talent is proportional to the AIEEE score. which is quite silly, because the AIEEE score is based on a mixture of talent + hard work + luck.
what is soon going to happen is that people who score well in AIEEE, many from andhra and kota-like places will fill up our best (and second best) institutes. seeing this, the corporate school culture will spread to other states, depriving children (and/or adolescents) throughout the country of their childhood (and/or adolescence).
you can almost picture narayana and sri chaitanya and other childhood-depriving institutes rubbing their hands in glee. who will we have to thank? the bloody HRD ministry.
@pkj No, with 4 new IITs, 1 BITS [Another one in the offering], NITs the competition becomes more tough. 3000 was just a random figure.
Even I was under the impression that lifting off the “state based” reservations was a good idea.. but after reading Badrinath’s comment… I would say that this decision can have altogether different repercussions..
Terrible decision by HRD. As you said, the “vibrant” atmosphere will not be there. We learn a lot of things in colleges like IIIT because there are people from a lot of places. It helps. Though you might not see how.
@Badri: you are totally right about the corporate culture spreading. I seriously hate this system. They don’t really care about us. It’s all for the Effing money. They not only deprive our childhood but also the ability to think freely. All the creativity, hobbies, sports etc LOST! We become more like robot. Like Isaac Asimov’s three laws of robotics we have laws there.
1. A student may not think freely or through inaction allow another student to think so.
2. A student must obey orders give to him/her by wardens, except where such orders would conflict the first low.
many more.
Bollocks! I hope this changes some day. Soon.
Hindu has a clarification on the next day. With 9.5 Lakhs students taking the exam top 1% of ranks should be equally good – except may be top 500 students.
Apparently, they might have taken this decision because added to this complicated system of reserving for each state and taking care of SC/ST quota, they have to take care of OBC quota from this year. That means some states wont even get seats in some NITs in Open category which might have been frowned upon by some of the states that will be affected. This is just my idea of what would have happen…
IIIT-H being a “research” institute… with the closing rank getting worse each year… the number of students who might be motivated to do research (completing dual degree prog in 5 years I mean) may decrease. Our Institute needs to decide now, whether to kick the students of dual degree out after 5 years no matter what or to keep them till the research is complete. If chosen the second option they seriously need to think about accommodation facilities as we also have to accommodate lots of other people like gurukul and AP IIIT mentors…
yeah, badri’s prediction of the really horrible corporate education spreading to other states is a distinct possibility.
however, in this context, I also wonder about the craze for engineering degrees … and most of the pass outs irrespective of their field either work in some IT company or some such job completed unrelated to their education .. but then why the demand :-s …
The whole idea of having AP IIITs in our state may seriously damage or dilute the brand value we got these days.
And with more IITs coming up the closing rank will drop drastically . So I think it’s time for our college to build up some serious brand name on quality research rather than placements.
The whole idea of having AP IIITs in our state may seriously damage or dilute the brand value we got these days.
And with more IITs coming up, the closing rank will drop drastically . So I think it’s time for our college to build up some serious brand name on quality research rather than on placements.
I just hope that IIIT-H does not change its selection process. I feel proud that there is only one way to get into IIIT-H
@ Badrinath. Before making such a judgement, lets think of what institutes are looking for. Talent, or a mixture of hard work and talent? Think about it. Ultimately, hard work is should be a very important criteria. And hence, I’ll go in with the HRD decision. Agreed that Kota and the other places are BAD, but think of the effort those kids put in… Don’t they deserve to be rewarded?
@Karan
Institutes look for a combination of hard work and talent. But the “hard work” they look for does NOT equate to “all work and no play”, which is what the sri chaitanyas and narayanas force upon kids. The situation now is so bad, that some places offering IIT coaching for students in the sixth standard have come up! Plus, there are coaching classes to get into coaching classes which help you get into coaching classes for the IITs. Do you want to see that spread to the rest of the country?
Besides, if parents were told that just by working very hard, EVERY kid will do EXCEPTIONALLY well, they will force extra classes/tuitions etc on their kids, even on those who are not that good. Misplaced parental hopes/expectations can be dangerous and we certainly dont want to go down that route.
“…but think of the effort those kids put in… Don’t they deserve to be rewarded?”
No. Just because you spent two years or more working hard does not mean you should get into the best college. A good college, all right. But not the best ones. Some guys drop more than two years, in an attempt to get into the IITs. Should they be given admission JUST because they worked so hard? Sometimes, sheer hard work is just not enough.
Completely agree with badrinath. I even suspect a foul play at the central government level in the wake of this new decision, especially given the amount of money these corporate schools make by looting common people.
One thing I have seen in IIIT. People who have come after very extensive coaching haven’t done very well. On the other hand people who had very little or no coaching have done remarkably good. Exceptions always exists. Like IITs, we should stop people, having 2 or more years of drop, coming to IIIT.
@pkj
I dont agree with what you said. If you look at the average then people with better rank(100-700) in the entrance exam have done a lot better than people having bad ranks (1500-2000).
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Development should happen at equal level in all the states. This decision of HRD is not correct.
As someone pointed out having many IIITs will dilute the brand. I do not think that’ll happen. It’ll instead strengthen the brand unless they make 100 more IIITs. People will ask there are lot many IIITs then which one should they go to. They should go to IIIT hyd. APIIITs are the brain child of Raj Reddy and Rajeev Sangal themselves. They are very unique. Just look at their website. http://www.apiiit.in/. Even IIIT Hyderabad is *significantly* unique college in whole India. Even some IITs started MS by Research program now. It is for sure that NITs and BITs are history now. They were good because there were no good colleges before 2000.
I remember my father telling me that he missed admission to REC Kurukshetra (NIT now) because the train got late (by 30 hours!!) and he could not report in time. Think about such scenarios now.
There is a lot need to be done. Okay, we have good faculty members. But none of them is extraordinary. By extraordinary I mean people like Donald Knuth, Dijkstra, Alan Turing, John McCarthy, Niklaus Wirth, RSAs etc. Whereas Stanford, CMU and MIT have them in great numbers. Still a loong way to go.
@ Badrinath. Totally agree with the fact that the culture of preparing for the IITs without any play, right from class six blah blah is quite harmful. I also agree that this shoudn’t be allowed to spread. But then, there has to be a reward for hardwork. You talk about just by working so hard, kids can do exceptionally well. But do you see the point there.. Not everyone is ready / motivated enough or has the will to work hard. Otherwise, you would see the IITs being filled with students only from Kota and AP.
Ultimately, the top instis want to test your hardwork, perseverance, and the ability to work for a goal. And people who show these qualities deserve to get through.
During all this, I totally agree on the fact that the system’s got to change. However, I don’t think denying is right.
As for people dropping for 2-3 years and all, guess we can have the funda which anonymous advocates.. Not allowing people who’ve dropped for more than an year.
@rakesh… looks like you have watched lots of movies related to conspiracy theories…cool down
opening and closing ranks doesnt matter…for this talent pool its just a 5-10 marks diference.. tats it in this ranks..
there r many other ppl who got less ranks than us and r technically better than most of the high ranked guys.. so all that matters is wat u do in engineering..
so i guess this opening and closing ranks concept .. as far as below 5k rank at national level doest matter much…
@badrinath.. lol@ur ignorant comments@ andhra ppl
.. most of the people frm andra as far as i know.. never in 2 intermediate years must have worked for 8hours… only thing we andhra ppl did must be.. writing so many grand tests tats it..
and andra ppl r not cunning and not selfish and r very good at their characters ..afterall character is more than ur talent…
@badrinath…
in andhra pradesh ther r many middle calss ppl and to acheive their dreams .. all they have to do is.. hard work.. and get into some good institutes and get a good job.. wat else a average middle class parents can think of their son…
so for these dreams.. they r sacrificing many things.. childhood njoyment and games watever.. to lead a better life in their 20’s with all money etc., by working very hard in these corporate jails in our +1 and +2 …
middle class ppl they just work hard harder.. and reach their goals.. get into the best college.. get into best company.. get the best salary.. and u r none to tell that they dont deserve best…and tat they deserve only gud…
one more thing to add to this…
y do u think .. china get so many medals in olympics.. everyone blames china of human rights child rights blah blah.. because there is a similar culture like these corporate colleges.. but replaced by govt sport schools..
and the kids from may be around 8 years..are rigorously trained… but ultimately they end up getting medals in olympics.. and their names r written in books..
ther is saying in hindi…
kuch paana hai tho kuch kona hai
even i hate this corporate coleges.. but in a broader look.. they r not doing so much harm.. as all the ppl making fuss abt tat..
there r many middle class ppl who have bettered their.. living positions.. in a way with the help of these corporate colleges..
many of our friends who once hated these corporate colleges while studing in +1 and +2..
sometimes think tat.. if we havent joined them.. must be.. we would have ended up having some useless b-tech degree frm some dakota college and must be in hunt for jobs.. but now all of us earn more than 30k per month..which is enough for us
As long as the craze for top-class engineering degrees remains in India, Kotas will live on.
^^^ A little addition to ur comment.
“As long as the craze for top-class engineering degrees remains in India, both ‘quota’ and ‘Kota’ will live on.”
I totally agree with Saki about what’s said about Corporate Colleges. They are just like China.
Working hard for two years doesn’t essentially take away your childhood. In fact, it gives us a confidence to work hard in future also. After all, the Japanese and Chinese are working hard than us every day.
Secondly, AP has a huge burgeoning middle class. Most of the students here are selfless and work hard only to fulfill their parents minimum aspirations.
But recently there is a trend of school children being subjected to rigorous training to ace IIT. This sort of over-enthusiasm is dangerous.
yes it is allright.